Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff

This article has been locked by the 2b2t Wiki staff to preserve its condition.

This is a talk/discussion page for drama occurring from April 9th - 23rd. More context here.

I'm not sure where to put this but I wanted to note that I've disabled the accounts Dumpster911 and NashTAS as I believe they solely existed to disrupt attempts at gathering valid community consensus. I personally wouldn't take their arguments into consideration when reading the discussion below, however I'm waiting on another Steward to review the below. NDKilla (talk) 00:39, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Closing Decisions by Steward I've reviewed the outcome of the discussion below and the following community consensus exists:

• Demotion of DarkAnnihilator: Proposal passes
• Demotion of Jonathan222: Proposal passes (significant but not overriding support for just the Bureaucrat rights to go, a request to regain Administrator permissions may pass as a follow up)
• Re-Promotion of LordGalvatronMC: Proposal not passed. Only 57% of the participants support the proposal (falling below the standard acceptance levels) and those which are against the proposal bring up fairly well reasoned arguments detailing concern. Therefore, I'd propose this is discussed in more detail and the Bureaucrats take up the management of such discussion.

John (talk) 18:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

• Decision for declining the re-promotion was contested in private. After reviewing in more detail the standings of users and arguments in more detail, I've decided there exists a consensus for re-promoting LordGalvatronMC. John (talk) 19:00, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Definition of demotion: Remove bureaucrat & administrator role
Definition of promotion: Add bureaucrat & administrator role

Demotion of DarkAnnihilator

I believe he should be demoted. He has been generally inactive for over a year, and he originally promoted a couple bad bureaucrats who've been abusive and biased. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 23:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Dark served us well when he was active, but that is no longer the case.His last edit was last edit 16:51, 8 September 2019. We need an active owner that promotes a strong community and inspires good people to participate in discussion. His absence and resultant negligence have caused abuse, bias, and misinformation to creep into this wiki. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 00:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He should be demoted. He has been inactive for quite a while now, we need active and competent bureaucrats. --H2hermit (talk) 17:22, 9 April 2020 (PST)

Only seen him once lmao --c0mmie/JewishPlayer

A terrible excuse for a staff member. Left for bit and comes back biased. --OMEGAO000 (talk) 01:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He has been inactive for over seven months, allowing for growing abuses by certain members of the remaining staff kept unchecked by the founder's absence. --Henry (talk)

If this guy is the owner, I have never seen him before. Sorry but I don’t think he should be staff if he is inactive. - [[Dumpster911]]

I believe he should be demoted, despite possibly taking good care of the wiki prior, he has not been active in many months. If someone is going to be inactive for a long period of time, they should reconsider their position in the wiki. --KB-2b2t (talk)

Inactivity is bad. While I have nothing against DarkAnnihilator as a person, he shouldn't be an admin if he's this inactive. He should be allowed back in should he become active again, but perhaps at a lower level of power. --Shpore (talk)

As someone who has been an avid reader of the 2b2t Wiki Project since April of 2017 under the name Nerxit. I'll have to say that DarkAnnihilators inactivity put a great strain onto the project. I find it funny sometimes when people mistook another admin for being the owner. As far as I am concerned, he was inactive for 10 months before he returned sometime in 2018. He went inactive again last fall.

EDIT: Additionally I will point out that DarkAnnihilator was not the original owner. --NashTAS

He should be demoted from staff for being inactive. This inactivity has caused problems in the past and problems right now. --ElliotRodger523 (talk) 08:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He should be demoted because he has not be online for months and it has caused problems between the staff team. --SoiledCold

Inactive, demote. --Rohen Tahir (talk) 13:05, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He is very inactive, admin powers should be given to someone who is. -FamilyPumpkin6

Though I don't wish to support him being demoted, I must, but purely on the basis that he is no longer active and cannot complete the task of being the leader of the Wiki by his inactivity. I believe he should be replaced with Elliot as a temporary leader until a better and more permanent candidate becomes known to us. -Koragus
Demotion of jonathan222

He should certainly be demoted. He has been extensively biased and abusive, just refer to any of the articles regarding projects he has taken part in and you'll find an extensive history that doesn't compare to the numerous other articles, which, by any measure, are more historically significant to the server, and yet he leaves them blank or twists them with his own bias, as in the case of his shilling for Wurst. He does not even play the server, and is very unqualified for his position. In addition to this, he has personally slandered me on numerous occasions, and unprofessional behaviour like this ought not to be the behaviour of someone with responsibilities such as his. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 23:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Jonathan has been a negligent shitposter the entire time I've known him, he is not suitable to be an admin because of his unprofessional attitude towards this wiki, as well as his childish behavior in the discord server. He is also out of touch with the realities of 2b2t, with his strong pro-Wurst client bias, and his complete ignorance of Kami client. Beyond this he lacks basic grammatical skills. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 00:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He is incompetent and extremely biased. His interest in the wiki is just the power he has over it, and he doesn't care about the truth. --H2hermit (talk) 17:22, 9 April 2020 (PST)

Wurst is best client! Demote him! -c0mmie/JewishPlayer

My time on this wiki with Jonathan222 has been a pretty negative experience due to him locking pages and refusing to consider alternative points of view. Jonathan222 stated in March of 2019 that he had not logged in for the past 6 months, in an edit to his own page here https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Jonathan222&diff=29867&oldid=29865 This was recently updated to say 12 months. Despite it having been 18+ months since he last logged in, he still acts like his information is up to date, such as when he recently removed Kami and its forks and offshoots from the cheat clients list, saying he had never heard of it, despite it having gained significant popularity in that time. Instead of listening to the community which essentially all agreed that it should be listed, he locked the page in a semi-broken state (an unrelated popular client had fallen through the cracks of the various rearrangements, edits, and reverts, and had been removed entirely) and it took over a week to fix it, and several more weeks to get the newer clients added Leijurv (talk) 00:36, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Also: The entire recent history of this page: https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Guide_to_2b2t.org&action=history Jonathan's solution to any disagreement seems to be to just lock the page instead of actually figuring out what's true and neutral. (Also, full disclosure: this edit https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Guide_to_2b2t.org&diff=34763&oldid=34746 was written by me, but carried out by SoiledCold since the page was locked; he could edit and I couldn't) Leijurv (talk) 00:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Jon exhibits a constant lack of knowledge regarding certain subjects. Not only that, he is also biased. --OMEGAO000 (talk) 01:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

+Demotion Jonathan. We've had enough argument over the Cheat Clients page a few months back, now (not even cherry-picking anything) he is back at it: https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&type=revision&diff=34779&oldid=34642. Trust is earned hard and lost easily. If someone puts innocent Changelogs to hide his ill-edits, I can no longer trust the person VADemon (talk) 01:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Another example now that you mention it, is this edit. The description is "fix guide" while instead the content is just, strange. For example it states that Impact does not have useful ESP while it has many modes, and his favorite example (tracers that change color based on distance) actually had been added to the client two months prior. I told him this in Discord, and he allowed me to undo it without locking the page. It's quite ridiculous to add in a statement saying "Impact does not useful ESP features" while having no idea what features it does or doesn't have. Especially hidden behind an innocent sounding edit summary like "fix guide". https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&diff=34024&oldid=34020 It also, as many others have mentioned, shills his personal favorite client Wurst, calling it "a wonderful client that contains many great modules" Leijurv (talk) 01:56, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Another example of the exact same thing from a few months before. https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&diff=prev&oldid=32449 Jonathan added something calling Wurst "wonderful", reduced Impact's description from "the most useful" hacks to "good pvp" hacks, which isn't even true, and I had to DM him on discord asking what on earth this was talking about (Impact is not known for pvp in the slightest). He also added some... borderline vandalism? to the skill client name, poking fun at it. All of this, yet again, under a faux innocent edit summary of "Fixed content". Leijurv (talk) 02:00, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Here's another https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&diff=30753&oldid=30627 The previous edit by "Epicgamermoment" fixed many typos, a word pluralized with "a" instead of "s", added the "a" to "hacks for 2b2t in a free client", fixed "such ad" to "such as", etc etc etc. Jonathan reverted the entire edit, which was purely positive, presumably since Epicgamermoment's previous edit to the page was anti-Wurst. The typo of "such ad" instead of "such as" was introduced by Jonathan himself earlier that day here https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&diff=30624&oldid=30623 and he reverted the edit that fixed it to "such as" (here: https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&diff=30627&oldid=30626) Leijurv (talk) 02:35, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Another: https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Cheat_Clients&diff=30622&oldid=30621 Jonathan claims that Entity Speed is only useful to people who PvP at spawn, and removes the statement that Wurst is missing it. Leijurv (talk) 02:35, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Wow there so much misinformation here with misleading ends. I find it odd how the DEVELOPER OF IMPACT is complaining about one page. Actually everyone here is complaining about Jon because of this one page with the content edited out! He is actually very mature and is quick to act when there is a problem. He is a good person and generally looks for the best. He also isn’t some basement weirdo that likes to steal peoples information. Also Joey is a supporter of Cremation who has destroyed the wiki in the past. Luckily Jon has restored order. This was a long time ago. I hope the stewards understand that many of the previous hate claims don’t make a point on why he is a bad admin. More-so hate over personal problems. I believe in you Jon! [no I am not an alt. Check me on discord]= - Dumpster911

That's correct, I do develop Impact. I am complaining about two pages, Cheat Clients, and Ultimate Guide to 2b2t. He is indeed quick to act, but the action is to lock the page instead of actually resolving the dispute. In my opinion, the Ultimate Guide page was essentially crippled by being Wurst-focused, since Wurst doesn't have a way to escape portal traps. The page suggested to walk at least 5000 overworld blocks before trying a nether portal. This isn't just a question of which client is better, it's an objective reality that the guide is better if you can try portals as you see them and not worry about getting stuck. Leijurv (talk) 02:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

So I checked you on Discord, and it sure looks to me like you're an alt... https://imgur.com/a/QvudNW5 --Henry (talk)

There is a good reason why the stewards removed accusing others for unimportant content. I have noticed there is a zero contribution - account that dissed Dumpster911 who IS a real person, and has stated that he was a former writer on here. Gee... I wonder who that might be... - NashTAS

Nash, I see that you are supporting Dumpster911 as being a real person. However, if you look at the image I posted previously (the imgur link), you'll see that Dumpster911 is clearly an alt of Jonathan222. While poking fun at Joey Coconut and myself on his 2b2t wiki discord server, Jonathan222 sent a screenshot of him joining our server on an alt account, named @dUmpstered#2256. This is already similar to Dumpster911. Then, this same account joined the Miraheze meta discord and set their own nickname to Dumpster911. Another circumstantial piece of evidence is referring to ElliotRodger523 by the nickname "Ellio", Dumpster911 did this in here, and Jonathan222 does this very commonly in Discord. "Georgekush411" is a third account, also created within a few hours of the other, and also follows the pattern of a phrase then three numbers. That account is also possibly an alt. Screenshots of all this are in this imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/QvudNW5 —Henry (talk)

I have compiled additional evidence to this claim, visible here: https://imgur.com/a/jIdKPzZ. As you can see in the image, it appears as if Jonathan222 and "Dumpster911" are using the exact same type of phone, in the same timezone. All this on top of the fact that Jonathan222 sent a screenshot taken from the PoV of dUmpstered's discord account. Combined with the similarities in each account's writing style, and the shared usage of the nickname "Ellio" for ElliotRodger523, it is almost certain that Dumpster911 is Jonathan222 operating under an alternate set of accounts. --Henry (talk)

And who happens to be DrPel? He has no contributions what so ever. Is he your alt? Im sure it is Henry.

I believe Jon should be demoted. Despite being quick to act, the actions he takes definitely aren't ideal... locking pages isn't cool man. -Elijah204

I believe that Jon should be demoted to Admin to make him more easy to deal with. I think of all the times people have had issues with his bias for wurst. --ElliotRodger523 (talk) 08:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I believe he should be demoted because he is way to bias against many edits especially against things he likes. --SoiledCold

TLDR: Jon should remain as a staff. Hardly any of you know what he has done throughout these years, and your points are considerably weak to why he should be demoted.

Really? After reading the other steward page, I've realized that this entire crapshow was set up to demote these hard working admins and replace them with some of the worst players online. Aside from Dark, I know most of the other admins, and if you don't know them, it's pretty easy to see how they work on their discord. It appears that there is a large amount of misleading information, and considering that one of the people here is a client developer, it's easy to fill in the gaps of what's going on. Quality content will clearly surpass quantity.

Before I explain about this staff, I'll explain that this entire incident is out of revenge, primarily when CremationEnthusiast, better known as Jared2013 attempted to grief this wiki while being hosted on FANDOM. In a personal post, he explains why he griefed the wiki, making awful claims of "a lot of the info is false". He blames newer players for this cause in this outrage, which can be seen here https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t/comments/6s2p9m/a_brief_explanation_of_why_i_deleted_your_wiki/ . FANDOM responded to this and banned him from using their services, alongside his friends. What is being omitted here is that Joey, Galvatron, and Henry are his friends, and support his ways of destroying others work, and doxxing - characteristics we shouldn't see.

Jonathan222 was promoted sometime after the FANDOM wiki was griefed by Dark. From there, he was one of the few admins who contributed to many edits, resolved disputes, and generally made the community a better place. His effort was most visible when the owner became inactive, and many of the other staff (Galvatron included - see below) cared less about the conditions of the wiki. One significant thing he did was resolving a large-scale issue with the only other active staff during that time, Rohen_Tahir (and AlienAgent24, but that is off topic). A player by the name of Queen_Avios created a group, and proceeded to add false information on every page, alongside creating forged images of bases to gain more fame. She was quickly banned afterwards after evidence was shown of her plot to use the wiki to gain more attention. When FANDOM was deleted, Jon was one of the few staff that put effort into transferring the pages onto an interim wiki which is now inactive. He also managed to try and manually restore images, which was important at the time considering FANDOM refused to share them as seen in an email to their customer support. While the wiki was using Miraheze as it's host, Jonathan222 patrolled the edit logs and was one of the few staff members that reported vandalism, or other issues such as IP bypasses, in which he has made several announcements being in contact with Miraheze staff. He keeps the community active as seen many times.

As for information, it seems that most of the information he posts is accurate. The only few real oddities was how his Timeline contributions prioritized community events, rather than server events - this is merely a trivial matter. Despite not playing on the server anymore, he is in touch with many members and is still posting pages, and runs large projects with much more organized teams such as the 2b2t Media Archive.

One of the more recent incidents that should be covered would be what is a trivial mistake on Jon's part, and a rather larger error on another person. The Ultimate Guide to 2b2t.org was written as a guide for Wurst, which was decent during the time the page was written. In one of its earlier builds when this page was on FANDOM. This page was revised to work with the changing the site rules. Now, Wurst isn't a good client nowadays because of that godawful download process, and having no AutoTotem at spawn is a ticket to death. Ok sure I get it. After re-reading some of the earlier conversations, as stated by another person, that Leijurv is the developer of Impact, a client which many people use on 2b2t. When reading the logs however, it seems that you have messaged other players to write for you, and re-wrote the page with an extreme bias towards your client. One possible intent was to use this as an opportunity to advertise a special donor only version of Impact which is behind a paywall. While Jonathan222 could have given the public more information about why he removed your edit, it's pretty clear that it was for the better, and that things could've been handled differently if it wasn't for going out of your way to bother others about editing the page. It also seems there was a confusion with KAMI and KAMI Blue, and appears that Jonathan222 is friends with one of the developers of that client as seen on the Archive. I will be editing this page later, as it appears LordGalvatronMC decided to poorly edit out information about other clients. I do not want to know where he is going to be headed with that.

I've also noticed a lot of comments that discussed about how much he shitposted. He rarely does if you do check out the #shitpost channel, and when he does, its pretty entertaining. One of the things I've noticed overtime with Jon was how he loosened up a bit. There was a previous discussion back on FANDOM about how he deleted an entire shitpost page on another player. Also "immature", aren't we all sometimes?

Overall, this is clearly and act against the original staff members that contributed and are still contributing today. - NashTAS

Hi Nerxit, regarding your link https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t/comments/6s2p9m/a_brief_explanation_of_why_i_deleted_your_wiki/, if you had actually bothered to read the comment section, you would see that the majority of the community then was in support of the actions I took to remove that incredibly biased and false wiki. In fact, to find your comment on that post, I had to scroll to the very bottom, as your opinion, even then, is not held by the majority. Remember that you are supporting people who are unqualified for their position, people who barely play the server, and, when they did, they were quite distant from the events that make it to this wiki. These are people who, independent of specifics, have maintained that this wiki is a shithole. I think even you must admit that the wiki is regarded as a horrible source- and why is that? These people have been the bureaucrats and admins for years, certainly that's enough time to correct these issues..? Well, for these three, apparently that is not the case. There's a reason why my post from three years ago had 65 upvotes during a time when that was a significant figure. It's because the vast majority of the community was and is in consensus when it comes to the quality of this wiki, and who is to blame for that but the people in charge? --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 20:58, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

There is nothing being done here 'out of revenge' as you assert, we act as we are (COMPLETELY within Miraheze guidelines) because we see the sad state the wiki is in and we want to fix it, alas, we are blocked from doing so. Our edits are reverted, Jon's and Rohen's respective bias perpetuated, and their unprofessional attitudes and lack of grammatical skill are also serious issues that need addressing. Most of us involved in this are not particularly close friends, we have a common goal. We will not destroy constructive work, and we will not dox. The attack on Galvatron's character is especially disheartening, as he is arguably THE most professional member of the wiki staff at this time. Jon participated in the theft of articles from the 2builders2tools wiki of which I myself am also an admin, the 'transfer' is quite a euphemism. CremationEnthusiast and myself edited and/or wrote a large number of those articles, so Jon has actually stolen OUR work. Jonathan barely patrolled the edit histories, for instance, MrCk10's page had very personal information posted to it, in February. Miraheze admins had to take it down themselves because he did not notice it. One could argue that it it falls to the group, but he attempts to act as the leader of the Wiki in the absence of Dark. If one treats Jon as a leader, the failure of the group falls to him, just as the success. Unfortunately, it is a string of failures. The community is ABSOLUTELY not more active with Jon in it, I have watched the discord server slowly wither and die, his unprofessional attitude and rampant shiposting within the discord, as well as his perpetuation of bias have seen to that. Jon's information is inaccurate as much of the wiki is, he is blind to his own inadequacy because his standards regarding factual information have dropped so far. On the topic of the 2b2t Media Archive, it's quality has also noticeably dropped, to the point that other servers, such as Anarchy Links Hub have been able to start and then flourish. Jon is not someone I feel would benefit the wiki in his current position. The 'trivial mistake' mentioned above, was an all-out block of edits attempting to take out the bias baked into the Ultimate Guide to 2b2t.org, in the revised version, there was no mention of any clients directly as you assert, only a link to the Hacked Clients page. The developer of impact is here because you unfairly promote one of his competitors, when there should ABSOLUTELY be a level playing field. I remember the Kami/Kami blue event, Jon displayed complete ignorance to the clients, an honestly forgivable offense, you can't know everything. The issues arose when he refused to rollback the edits and exhibited an outlandishly unprofessional attitude towards the individual who wrote the article. I read Galvatron's edit of that page, and I can say with absolute certainty, it was a fair edit that gave a level playing field to all clients, because it merely linked to the Hacked Clients page. The shitposting was not in the shitpost channel in the discord, that is why the above poster (who genuinely feels like a Jon alt) did not find it. It was largely in the announcements channel, in conjunction with Rohen. A large portion of it was anyways deleted, by myself and Galvatron. The fact that any shitposting occurs from administrators in official channels is unprofessionalism to the worst degree, it is not something such a large wiki should have to suffer through. The immaturity of Jon far exceeds what someone in his station should ever exhibit, up until yesterday, I had been an admin a long time, 4 months on this account, and about a year on my other before that. That entire time I have been complaining to Jon, and Rohen for that matter, to clean up their respective acts. My words were gazed upon by blind eyes.

You are absolutely correct, this is an act against the original staff members. We have been driven to this because they do not act with the best interest of this wiki at heart. Meaningful contributions have not been received from them in an exceedingly long time, and their action encourage people such as myself, Galvatron, and Henry to not edit as much as we would like because we fear rollbacks and do not want to wast our time or participate in edit wars. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 17:41, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

You clearly prove my point, and just like LordGalvatronMC, you are yet another lazy, inactive, and greedy staff member. The last time you were active before this event was October 2019. You can be applied to the same pop-in. You barely do anything and clearly are a support of CremationEnthusiast, the same person who has greifed the wiki in 2017, and is known for being a terrible person and general and doxxes other players. I'm sure you support this as well. It seems that someone was blocked from that page, and while looking into this, it seems that the account blocked was clearly an alternate account, possibly for a certain someone to get their way, which does apply to this wiki's rules. Jared has contributed to hardly anything while the interim wiki was in place, and has contributed nothing to here. Id also like to point out that deleting hundreds of pages for not liking them is not a contribution. You still have not proven an actual point other than making blatant claims against these hard working admins. Besides, you should be complaining about someone who leaks personal information, and not someone who made an edit you do not like. - NashTAS

Uh, yes? Virtually everything you said about me is true. I'm confused why you wrote this as if it's some kind of "gotcha" while this is all stuff that I've written here on this page. You didn't have to go through "reading the logs" to find out that I asked SoiledCold to make that edit, it's written on this page, by me, 6 hours before: https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_Changes_to_2b2t_Wiki_Staff&diff=35655&oldid=35654 It's funny that you bolded "extreme bias": It was a guide for how to escape spawn with Wurst, and I rewrote it for Impact. That isn't just bias, it's a guide for how to do it, taking advantages of this client. Do you have anything to back up your idea that I was advertising a donor only version? 2b people just use 1.12.2 while the donor version is for 1.15.2 at the moment. Impact for 2b2t's current version has never been paywalled. Ever. I wouldn't call it "bias" to write the guide from the pov of a modern commonly used free client, but I might call it "bias" to keep the guide using a client that's become pretty outdated, just because Jonathan likes it. I haven't heard any alternatives; if not Impact, what free client should the guide recommend to noobs? And if it's going to be Impact, what's the problem with me writing the guide? I can probably do a better job than most given how I'm intimately familiar with how the client works. Given that you agree that Wurst is no longer the best option, I'm having a hard time understanding how you're coming to the conclusion that the problem lies with me updating the guide, and not with Jonathan for refusing any changes. Leijurv (talk) 16:58, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

The fact you demonstrate an exceptional amount of anger because of one page can prove my stated possibility even more. If you didn't read what I said, it seems that Jon is friends with the developer of KAMI BLUE. Writing the page yourself will make it seem biased, and is clearly suited for someone that isn't you or at least Jon in this case to write the page. - NashTAS

Where are you seeing an "exceptional amount of anger"? I did notice you said that Jon is friends with the dev of Kami blue, but I'm not sure how that's relevant? Are you suggesting that the guide should be written from the pov of using kami blue...? "Writing the page yourself will make it seem biased" Again, can you explain why that's a bad thing? As you said earlier, we agree that the guide shouldn't be written from the pov of using Wurst, and I know how to use Impact, so what's the problem with me explaining how to use it in a guide? Currently the guide strives to be client neutral, but, as I said earlier, it still relies on the Portals module to not get stuck in portal traps, something that Wurst doesn't have. What would this guide look like in your ideal world? Leijurv (talk) 18:55, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I saw that you posted on my user talk page "I'm done arguing with you. I have created a template page so you can write about whatever you want about Impact for this guide. I have also messaged the other party about this. Hopefully this will resolve this silly argument." Thanks for trying to resolve this. However, I disagree with your premise. With a content dispute on a wiki article, the correct course of action is to, uh, figure out what's correct. Given a disagreement, it's a fallacy to just assume that both sides are equally meritous. So, I don't agree with your premise that I should just go off and write my own guide. Jonathan has no leg to stand on here regarding keeping the page as a Wurst guide, for reasons I've explained to death. Imagine if you had a disagreement about what belongs on the Timeline article and an admin told you "well just go off and write a 'NashTAS's Timeline' article". That's not how wikis work, the whole point is that they're collaboratory. And to be clear, I already did your suggestion. "Leijurv's guide" already exists, just look in the history of Ultimate Guide. Here it is: https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Guide_to_2b2t.org&oldid=34763 But, nothing links to this. Even if you replaced the current guide with a "hub" linking to the "wurst guide" and the "impact guide", that still wouldn't be correct since it implies that you could just choose either one and proceed. You might think that we could have some explanation there of why you might want a client that helps you escape portal traps, perhaps? But if you look at the many diffs I linked earlier in here, Jonathan persistently removes any negative phrases about Wurst from Cheat Clients, specifically disallowing any mention of features that are missing from Wurst (auto totem, entity speed, crystal aura, anti hunger, portals, etc). THAT is bias, removing factual useful information since you just don't like it. And just today as I checked, ElliotRodger has moved Wurst above Future in the Common Clients section on that page. So, we would just end up with the status quo (a strangly written guide with useful information badly redacted out), or worse (the previous status quo, a bad guide that tells you to use Wurst and has no way to escape portal traps). In case it's unclear: the current version of the page's "How to Escape Spawn" as written is my guide, but anything relating to Impact has been edited out. The previous version was quite bad, suggesting that you alt+f4 if you see anyone on tracers, and suggesting that you walk 5000 overworld blocks before entering a portal.

In your first edit, you said that you were in agreement that Wurst isn't the best client to recommend anymore, since it's missing features and has a godawful download process. I'm still having a hard time understanding where this disconnect is coming from. Wurst is no longer a good option, Future costs money, that leaves Impact from the Common Clients section of Cheat Clients. The only reason, at all, to bifurcate into a "wurst guide" and an "impact guide" is just to appease Jonathan222's pet client. If you look at what other people on this page have said, it's clear that the Wurst bias is not appreciated. And you agree! So why are you defending it? Let's make the guide the best it can be, and keep all the borderline troll suggestions off of it. Honestly, if you told me that the guide suggested to download Wurst, walk 5000 blocks before trying a portal, and alt+f4 if you see anyone on tracers, I'd tell you that that sounds like a troll guide delibrately written to mess with new players.

So, Jonathan is sort of lording over this guide to freeze it in place with outdated information. It was written in this way on June 9 2018 (https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Guide_to_2b2t.org&oldid=20518), and Jonathan seems to just want it to not change at all. Now, he HAS let up in the last 24 hours (permitted galvatron to change it to my version, but redacted), but I don't think that should be counted, since it's during this whole dispute on here. He's locked the page (it's still locked), as well as the cheat clients page, just because he doesn't, well, like the consensus. I know Jonathan's going to be reading this, like, dude, the client that you used to like, back when you played (18 months ago?) is no longer the best choice. I think you do a good job keeping the trolls off the wiki, and you put in the time to watch the edit history and revert and block people that vandalize. I really appreciate this. I just wish you wouldn't be so stubborn about pages like this when there's clear reasons why the edit would change the page for the better. Leijurv (talk) 02:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

After reading your point, I agree that it would be confusing to make a hub for these guides. I also agree that it should be updated at least by other players that are willing to give their input. Hopefully if he is reading this, he should unlock the page to allow the guide to be updated. It seems EllioTricks [or EllioRodgers523? Apparently he changed his name again] has put some effort into fixing the poor revision LordGalvatronMC made. I'll also point out that i'm interested in rebuilding this guide as well for the better. There is a way to improvise on this and all that needs to happen is for Jon to unlock the page. - NashTAS

Yes, I talked with Elliot yesterday about whether to include Anti Hunger (about whether or not it's a good thing to recommend since he's had an experience of getting kicked for using it) but we came to a consensus (lol). Sounds like in the end we're completely in agreement; it's sorta annoying that Jonathan locked the page and it would be great if it were unlocked. Leijurv (talk) 19:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

As expected, my clear explanation on why the page should be unlocked worked. I'm glad Jon seems to understand the situation on why it was needed to be unlocked. - NashTAS

Well you didn't explain this. You asked for it to be unlocked for unrelated reasons later in the guide, not for any of the reasons that I brought up? https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ultimate_Guide_to_2b2t.org&diff=35819&oldid=34803 I'm glad it's unlocked though. Leijurv (talk) 22:15, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Elliot. --Rohen Tahir (talk) 13:05, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I also agree with Elliot. -Koragus

Jon is active and resolves griefing. I agree with Elliot and we shouldn't demote him. -Fredmodulars (talk) 00:17, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CLOSED ISSUE - ROHEN HAS RESIGNED FROM BUREAUCRAT & ADMINISRTRATOR:
Demotion of Rohen Tahir

He should be demoted for many of the same reasons as jon. He is incompetent and unqualified, as well as combative when he doesn't get his way. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 23:55, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Rohen is a textbook example of what it means to be unprofessional,even today, he called me a retard, and said to "please end your pathetic existance via differential pressure hazard already". This is not the behavior a Bureaucrat should EVER exhibit, as his task is to motivate the lower members and solve conflicts. He additionally blocked a large rules overhaul from Galvatron, largely concerning Rohen's and Jon's rampant shitposting in the announcements channel of the discord. Again, another Bureaucrat that lacks basic grammatical capabilities. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 00:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Same reason as jonathan. -H2hermit (talk) 17:22, 9 April 2020 (PST)

Follows jon in the way he acts and regards the site. --OMEGAO000 (talk) 01:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He is just a bit inactive and has caused problems in the past, but not in recent memory. I believe he should maybe be treated like Jon and be demoted to admin. --ElliotRodger523 (talk) 08:33, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He is not that active and I believe he should

TLDR: Rohen should remain as a staff. Hardly any of you know what he has done throughout these years, and your points are considerably weak to why he should be demoted.

Yet again almost everything from what I said about Jon can be said about Rohen, so I wont copy and paste 2 paragraphs of content. I will like to point out a few things Rohen has done in the past which I still remember to this day. To be honest, I felt like Rohen was the leader while Dark was first inactive back in late 2017/early 2018. He kept most of the pages organized while the wiki was hosted on FANDOM, and has contributed to many pages. He also assisted in the removal of Queen_Avios, and assisted in communicating with FANDOM while Jared2013/CremationEnthusiast greifed the wiki in 2017. Hes active and generally responds to help. While he does shitpost more often, it does not really bother anyone, unless if pinged.

Overall, this is clearly and act against the original staff members that contributed and are still contributing today.

https://youtu.be/UjTv8ivh7mY?t=13 --Rohen Tahir (talk) 17:43, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Khajiit has wares, if you have coin - NashTAS

I'd also wanted to point out that "same as Jon" is not a valid argument either!
Re-promotion of LordGalvatronMC

He was demoted unfairly. Simple as that. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 23:55, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I have known Galvatron a long time, he has always been a kind, fair man. For his entire time on this wiki, he has worked tirelessly writing and editing articles , with a professional attitude. He does not act out like many others within the leadership, and he also has grammatical capabilities. He acts with professionalism. For an editor like me, he is a strong boon, and I'm appreciative to have him in this community. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 00:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He was a good bureaucrat. He didn't deserve to be demoted. -H2hermit (talk) 17:22, 9 April 2020 (PST)

Galvatron did nothing wrong Leijurv (talk) 00:42, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

He takes the wiki seriously, and not only that he acts tirelessly on articles. He takes suggestions from others, making it easy to work with him. --OMEGAO000 (talk) 01:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This guy is known for abuse and only cares about his precious faction pages such as the Astral Order. He is generally inactive unless if he gets offended when other admins do something he does not like. He acts like a child on discord and decided to ping everyone to cause trouble. He supports people such as jared and his actions such as stealing other peoples information. He also tends to ping everyone for random things. This abuser should not be re-promoted! - Dumpster911

Galv hasn't done anything wrong to my knowledge. Shpore (talk)

[Why are you here Sphore? You quit months ago and clearly know nothing about the situation]

I believe he was unfairly demoted in the heat of this situation --SoiledCold

TLDR: LordGalvatronMC and CO. Should remain demoted and banned. Hardly any of these comments explain how he was a good bureaucrat.

LordGalvatronMC is a perfect example of a lazy, inactive, and greedy wiki staff member. I hardly notice this person online, just like the other "staff" members that do nothing, unless if they need to violently act up because they are upset they see something they don't like. As stated earlier, Jared2013, also known as CremationEnthusiast, griefed the wiki in the past with his friends, such as AutismBot27. Todays attempt was considered to be a grief, as an entire discord was formed to maliciously exploit both the discord and the wiki. Not only did you decided to be an unprofessional "staff" by pinging everyone with a bot multiple times, and unbanning unwanted players, you had violated the Miraheze ToS, in which I had contacted a staff member to resolve the issue alongside a few others. You are never online and generally pop on to say something then leave for another month or two. You have never made an announcement, which explains your inactivity even more. Your contributions clearly prove this point. First you "redo" everything on your group, Astral Order, sometime in 2018. You then pop up again to make two more edits on your group again. You then revert two peoples' contributions on the same day in March. You then make several edits in October 2019, then return three months later in January 2020. Most of these updates was for your groups. Since then, you have not been really active compared to the other working admins. For those who are reading, do you really want to re-promote a person who supports illegal sharing of personal information? It is also clear that LordGalvatronMC's intent is to re-promote Jared2013 if he does get promoted by the stewards who I hope are carefully looking at the quality of both sides of this argument. Overall, promoting this person will spell doom towards the history of the 2b2t Wiki. - NashTAS

@NashTAS [Citation Needed] on "You had violated the Miraheze ToS". It's not a ToS violation every time global staff intervenes, and usually Stewards only handle steward matters. If it was a ToU (not ToS) violation, SRE would probably prevent the person from accessing the platform. NDKilla (talk) 14:34, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Re-promoting Galvatron will inevitably lead to CremationEnthusiast being repromoted by him. And if CremationEnthusiast gets admin perms he'll most likely delete everything. --Rohen Tahir (talk) 18:50, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Rohen, This is my wiki: https://2builders2tools.miraheze.org, I am sure you're familiar with it as you are one of the bureaucrats who was present when my articles were stolen and pasted on this wiki whilst I was still banned by jonathan. Why don't you go over there and have a look at the quality of what I've produced and the type of content you can expect from me if I achieve a position of authority on this wiki. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 21:05, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Still doesn't make up for your immature behavior. It appears you have a discord dedicated into rallying people, readers and non readers, to boost your reputation while omitting how much you are disliked on the community. Your projects fail, and you have made zero edits on this wiki. Many of the edits on "your" wiki are from the archived TXT file from the wiki hosted on FANDOM. If you care so much about it, go start your work on there instead of bothering us here. NashTas(?)

Well, if I succeed in finding the support through rallying people from public 2b2t-oriented discsords, then clearly I'm not so disliked in the community, lmao. "Your projects fail" - watching a bit of FitMC, bud? I wouldn't expect you to know the truth of what happened with incursions & related, as there's no proper public source on those events! Zero edits? Check again, pal :). Yes, I am aware that some people imported the old wiki. Look at my edits over there and edits on pages like Boedecken, BGM, and related. "Bothering us here" - afaik, you're not even an active participant in this community. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

"I think you do a good job keeping the trolls off the wiki, and you put in the time to watch the edit history and revert and block people that vandalize. I really appreciate this." - Leijurv commenting about Jonathan222

You might wonder why is this significant? After diving into the announcements section on the 2b2t Wiki discord, I have counted that Jon made 22 major announcements regarding to vandalization being fixed, essential information being addressed, and the status of the wiki's servers. LordGalvatronMC? "Rules have been updated", - one relevant announcement being generous considering that it applied to the discord only. On Miraheze, the wiki has been vandalized multiple times. Jon deals with these vandals and making sure that no pages are being destroyed. Where has LordGalvatronMC been when the wiki needed urgent help? Oh that's right! He was inactive because he cares less about the condition of the wiki other than his personal pages. Keep in mind that Galvatron barely makes use of being a bureaucrat. Making small edits is for regular editors. Also you have made only three edits not including your edits on here. To be specific, you created three general pages that minimal content. These pages were Newfaggots, Midfaggots, and Oldfaggots, in which you give biased opinions on what defines each of these terms. Your edits on the interim wiki do not count here, and in fact support my claim of why you are so interested in taking over this wiki when you have your own? I only used FitMC once for a source, and that was for his own page to add primary sources in a section that needed more detail. - NashTAS

The entire first section of your "response" doesn't address what I said and I'm not going to respond to it further. Yes, my edit count here is low. I was banned by jonathan shortly after one of DarkAnnihilator's absences and was unable to contribute further. The edits on the other wiki certainly do count as they were stolen and pasted here. The definitions I've used there are generally accepted. With your line of reasoning, you could say anything is biased, but I'm using what, in my experience, has been accepted by the majority of the community, and yes, my experience is a valid source as I've been here for most of a decade. --CremationEnthusiast (talk) 21:35, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

My only opinion on this is that I figured the wiki was long dead until today, so if it means progress I agree some change needs to happen. Whether it be a demotion/promotion or hostile takeover then so be it. ItsYoungDaddy (talk)

^ You must be another alt account ItsYoungDaddy. Zero edits and zero contributions... - NashTAS

dm me at ✞itsyoungdaddy✞#1815 on discord if you'd like, im no alt and ive literally been fixing small shit in site while you were typing this - ItsYoungDaddy (talk)

If Galvatron is to be reinstated I do not know if he would then also grant Jared2013 administrator permissions. If this where to happen it would be a final knock to what the wiki has stood for. We stand here to try and promote unbiased information and to create a history that is most accurate as possible. Jared stands in contrast of that since he would abuse the wiki for himself and his own public image and to rewrite history in his own way the way he has before hand. And here he is trying another attempt to take over the wiki. This is only a criticism of Jared2013 also known as CremationEnthusiast. The criticism of Galvatron if his past and unexpected destructive actions which would not be a great fit for a wiki like ours. Jared2013 has been known to dox people which is a very serious real world offense and thus should not be associated with this wiki nor the people that support him within the wiki. In conclusion I believe it would be too risky to bring back LordGalvatronMC as a Bureaucrat or even a Administrator since we have no reason to believe he wouldn't change his ways or would not work for Jared2013 causing this to become a biased and corrupt view of 2b2t history. -Koragus

Koragus, you misunderstand our position thoroughly. We are moving through completely legitimate channels, nothing is improper. What is wrong, however, is the extremely biased nature of the wiki currently. This whole situation has arisen because of said nature the wiki already exhibits. I am certain all of us participate in this project to improve the wiki, and not to shill for ourselves, if that were the case, we all could easily have just done it, and it likely would have gone unnoticed. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 19:42, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

For as long as I have known Galvatron, he has been a kind and unassuming person, and his contribution to the wiki reflects that. He has been a consistent contributor both to his own areas of expertise, as well as the rest of the wiki, to which he served the role of bureaucrat exceptionally. I have never observed Galv display overt bias in his contributions, nor has he ever held an unprofessional attitude, statements which unfortunately do not always apply to the rest of the staff. The wiki would be taking a major loss if it was to lose such a dedicated contributor. --Henry (talk)

Galvatron is inactive and supports jared2013. We should demote him. -Fredmodulars (talk) 00:17, 15 April 2020 (UTC)